The Cocktail Spirit with Robert Hess

Robert, you mention that you ‘could’ add the entire egg white into the drink, but choose to just add a tsp… does that mean some recipes have called for an entire egg white?

Also...any recipes that use the yolk sack?

Great episode...never knew about the egg white in sours before.

Hi Robert,
why did you decide to skip Angostura bitters?

Just a few days ago I tried to do a Whiskey Sour for some friends (without the egg white), with some sucess (I need to replenish my bourbon). I will certainly try with the egg white.
You mention other Sour’s, like the Daiquiri and the Marguerita, could we also use the egg white on those? Or would it change too much the drink? (my Marguerita’s were not a sucess :-( )

Why is the simple syrup brown?

Tim,

In a sour, it is typical (or used to be) to just use a teaspoon or so of egg white, although the “Pisco Sour” uses the entire white. The result is a much more pronounced foam on top, and a silkier texture. You can use a full egg white in a sour, which will, like in the Pisco Sour, add more foam and texture.

As for using the yolk as well… the drink style that uses that the most would be the “Fizz” (1 tablespoon sugar, 1 oz lemon juice, 2 oz spirit, shake, strain into collins glass, and top with charged water). When you use egg, it becomes a “golden fizz” (if just the yolk) or “royal fizz” (if the whole egg), or “silver fizz” (just egg whtie).

-Robert

Pedro,

The “Whiskey Sour” doesn’t typically use bitters, the Pisco Sour, which is a somewhat similar drink, does use a dash or two of bitters to the foam which forms on top.

-Robert

Boavida,

You could certainly add a little eggwhite to any of the “sour” style drinks. Before just hapazardly trying it however, I might suggest looking up some of the other drinks which use eggwhite as an ingredient and see what it does for those drinks, understand it’s culinary value, and then see which other drinks might be able to use it similarly.

-Robert

John,

My simple syrup is brown because I made it with Demerara sugar, I feel that it adds just a little bit of extra character to the syrup… or at least that’s the excuse I use :->

-Robert

This video brought me back to when my Grandfather was still alive. I remember he would make Whiskey Sours for my Grandmother and Manhattans for one of my Aunts. I remember him always calling drinks “highballs”, no matter what the drink was.

I think I’ll make a Whiskey Sour this weekend and reminisce about the old days with GrandPa.

One of the top five cocktails ever, in my opinion.  Mr Hess, what is your syrup ratio of sugar to water?

For my simple syrup, I use 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, which is often referred to as a “rich” simple syrup.

Robert,
We just made one with and without the egg white. What a difference! Mouthfeel was something I usually reserve talking about when discussing wine,but this cocktail with the egg white has great mouthfeel. Creamy. I really like your pisco sour glasses. I make the occasional pisco sour and would like to get these glasses or something similar. Might I inquire as to their source?  Thank you for this series.
¡Salúd!

Perry,

People have tended to forget about mouthfeel with their cocktails for some reason. Used to be that simple syrup was refered to as “gum syrup”, which meant it was made with gum arabic, which also adds a certain level of mouth feel as well.
As for the Pisco Sour glasses… Those were given to me by a Peruvian friend of mine. Not sure where/how he got them.

-Robert

I’ve noticed that the ingredient ratio differs here (the video) from DrinkBoy.com’s recipe section, and each of these in turn differs from the IBA ingredient ratio.  This is difficult for me to mesh with your insistence that measuring even for skilled bartenders is important.  Please help.

Also, could you say a word on using simple syrup rather than gomme syrup?

Much appreciated.  I love the show.  Keep up the good work.

-Mark

Mark,

I see that somebody has been doing their research! Great! Keep it up!

The issue here is that there is no “one” perfect recipe for any cocktail, if there were, then you could simply make an automated cocktail dispenser which would potentially put bartenders out of business.

The importance of measuring isn’t to make sure that your drink follows “my” recipe (of the moment), but that the drink you make accurately follows YOUR recipe. It is also important when trying a new recipe for the first time to make sure that the drink you prepare matches what the recipe was intended to communicate. Once you do that, you can then taste the “real” drink, and determine if you think it is too sour, too sweet, too weak, or too robust, and adjust as necessary. For example, try a Sidecar using the “original” measures of equal parts brandy, Cointreau, and lemon juice. Me, I find that WAY too tart. I adjusted this and came up with what I feel is “my” perfect recipe… 4 parts brandy, 2 parts Cointreau, 1 part lemon juice. However that is not the recipe you’ll find somebody like Dale DeGroff, Gary Regan, Dave Wondrich, or Ted Haigh using… each of them uses a slightly different recipe, which “they” feel is the perfect recipe for their tastes. And there in lies the beauty of the cocktail. The “participation” aspect that each of us plays in it.

As for gomme syrup, also known as “gum syrup”, because it is made just like simple syrup, but with the addition of gum arabic. To use the “gomme” name, it would probably be more appropriate to call it “sirop de gomme”, which is French for “gum syrup”. The gum arabic adds an extra mouth feel to the syrup (as well as a slight tan coloring). In something like the Whiskey Sour, it sort of plays the same roll as the egg white does, although in addition to mouthfeel, the eggwhite will also produce a fine foam on the top of the drink, which gum syrup won’t.

-Robert

Wow. I made this the other day and I really liked it. I usually don’t drink whiskey, but I happened to have a little bit of Maker’s Mark on hand and tried it. I really like it. I made one today with the egg white (last time I didn’t); AWESOME. What a great drink. Thank you very much Robert.

The Whiskey Sour is one of those “bygone” drinks which people tend to pass over a lot for drinks that they think are a little “trendier”.

Sometimes a simple drink like this is just the ticket… as long as the bartender is familiar enough with it to get the balance right.

Glad you liked it!

What about using dried powdered eggwhite, or even maringe powder, to make it a bit easier for oneself? It is real eggwhite after all, unlike those foaming agents you mentioned.

Also, your sweet-to-sour ratio seems a bit different to most recipes I’ve seen for sours. I’m only a beginner to mixology, but 1 oz of “rich” simple syrup to 3/4 oz of lemon juice seems quite sweet to me. To be honest I’m also partial to sweet-tasting sour mix, but even so, I’ve come to think that a “sour” should naturally live up to it’s name and be kind of sour, and it’s simply an acquired taste that I’ll have to work on acquiring

Anyway, this guide is great! I’ll be using it to make Scotch Sours later today (I know from past experience that Scotch and lemon combine very nicely to my tastes). Thanks!

Alex,

For me, the best eggwhites to use are honest to goodness, fresh out of the egg product. They are better than even the liquid pasturized eggwhites in a noticeable way, in fact they are even better than whites from a pasturized “whole egg” that are now on the market. Using a powdered eggwhite is just simplifying a step at the cost of quality.... or that’s my opinion any way.

One of the things I like about cocktails, is that there is no single “recipe” which is etched in stone. It’s all about individual participation in the process, and making the adjustments that the craftsman thing is appropriate for the particular product being used, the environment it is being served in, and even the particular taste-profile preferences of the craftsman. Folks often say that I tend toward slightly “sweeter” recipes… although I personally don’t see myself as having a sweet tooth.

If you prefer your sours to be more sour, then by all means make adjustments to the recipes presented here as appropriate.

One of my touchstones about the proper “balance” in a recipe, is that if as I am taking the final sips of the drink I find myself wanting to order a second of the same, then it’s just right. Often a drink might start off tasting just right, but the sweet or sourness of it builds as you work through the drink, and by the end you find that you’re ready for something else. This is a situation where the drink isn’t quite properly balanced.

-Robert

Does anyone have an issue with eating/drinking raw eggs?  There is so much info about “bacteria” and “food poisoning” form raw eggs.  Or does the alchol kill off the bacteria?

Yes, some folks have issues with the use of raw eggs, just as some folks have issues with Sushi and Steak Tartar.

People with immune system problems should avoid raw eggs, but for the most part, I haven’t found that there is really much of a problem. Alcohol and citric acid (from lemon juice) both go a long way in destorying the harmful bacterias.

-Robert

Hi Robert,

I was wondering if you could help me with the answer to this question. Here in the UK it’s pretty much standard practice to make all our sours to the same recipe of 2oz spirit, 1oz lemon juice, 1oz sugar syrup, 1 egg white and a couple of dashes of bitters. However, I’ve noticed that most of the recipes in cocktail and mixology literature omit the use of egg white and bitters with some even calling for the use of ‘sweet and sour’ mix! Is this an evolution of the sour cocktail or is this how they were originally made?

Thanks Robert.

Adam,

Egg white is something that periodically shows up in older recipes for a “sour”, it wasn’t one of the original ingredients, but came in a little later. I should look through my old books to see if I can spot when it first appeared. Usually it wasn’t a whole egg white, but just a spoonful or so which would provide just a little bit of texture and consistency, along with a slight carpet of foam across the top. I wonder if this came about as an alternative to using “gum arabic” syrup?

As for bitters, you’ll never find me object to having a bit of bitters in my drink! But this is even less common than adding eggwhite. The Pisco Sour of course demands a dash or two of bitters on the eggwhite foam. I wonder if the UK bartenders are taking the Pisco Sour and using it as the basis for their sours? A proper Pisco Sour (according to my Peruvian friends) is a 3-1-1 ratio.

As for “sweet and sour mix"… just say no! As you note, “all” of your sours use an equal amount of lemon juice and sugar syrup. At one time somebody thought they could speed up their drinks by simply mix up a larger amount of “mix” that was equal parts of fresh lemon juice and simple syrup. Which I think can work well as long as it is freshly made each shift, if not more often. Problems with this however come in two forms. One is when this mix is used as a “hammer” and applied to drinks which wouldn’t normally use the specific “recipe” behind the mix in the drink recipe. The other is when commercialism rears it’s ugly head and mass produces this mix off-site using chemicals, preservatives, and stableizers, resulting in a ugly mess.

While many bartenders I know, love, and respect make fresh sour mix (aka. sweet & sour mix) for some of their drinks, and do a good job of it, I personally avoid ever listing “sour mix” as an ingredient in a recipe. My feeling is that when a knowledgeable bartender sees a recipe which calls for “xxx of lemon juice, xxx of simple syrup”, they can do the math and determine if they want to use their home-made sour mix for that, and a budding home mixologist will just use the lemon juice and simple syrup separately and make a great cocktail. While if the recipe calls for “sour mix”, the experienced bartender will still use their home-made mix (but may be concerned if “their” sour mix is of similar “balance” to the one used in the recipe), but the budding home mixologist will be confused, but then see a bottled “sour mix” at the grocery store and think this is the right thing to use, and end up making a very sad drink. Which is why I specifically removed all references to “sour mix” in the new edition of “Mr. Bostons”.

In my mind, using sour mix in a cocktail is like using instant rice to make paella. :->

-Robert

Robert,

I tried this the other day and really enjoyed it.  It is, truly, a classic.  I also used a quality bourbon in mine.  However, I was thinking that a good quality bourbon, such as Maker’s Mark, may be a little too nice for mixing with lemon juice and suger.  I used Ridgemont 1792 and actually felt a little guilty about it.  Do you think a less expensive bourbon would spoil the drink?

John, I don’t think you should ever feel guilty about the quality of the spirit you use in a cocktail. You should never feel like you “have” to use an ultra-premium, or a bargain-basement brand however. Use what you like, and periodically try different brands to see how that changes the taste.

Just as a chef will use quality ingredients to make a stew, a mixologist should always choose ingredients of appropriate quality when they make cocktails.

Robert,

How about using Irish Whiskey, American Rye, Canadian Blended or be really adventurous and try a Highland Scotch?  Seems like they are all whiskies.

Blair

Blair,

A “sour” is essentially just a style of cocktail, so you can use any spirit to make one. A “Rum Sour” is essentially just a Daiquiri. And while a whiskey sour is traditionally made with American whiskey, since the whisk(e)y category is so… er… complicated, making it with irish, or other forms of whiskey would technically still be a whiskey sour. The REAL issue however, is of course what it tastes like, how the different whiskies might require slightly different measures, and most important, which you prefer.

-Robert

Hi Robert great stuff. I am revamping are bar which holds up 300 people. We are only using fresh fruit, I am concerned my bartenders won’t be able to keep up with making the whiskey sour and pisco sour from scratch. Do you have any suggestions? Do you think we could make up batches ahead of time?

Lester

Lester, while there are certain drinks which have complex enough preparation that might require some batch processing of them, I don’t really think I’d consider either the Whiskey Sour or Pisco Sour to fit this category. The secret is going to be proper mis en place, or making sure that the necessary ingredients are readily set up at your fingertips so you can quickly construct the drink. The lemon juice (or lime juice in the case of the Pisco Sour) can be pre-squeezed, but not too far in advance.

And always be sure to use fresh eggs!