The Cocktail Spirit with Robert Hess

Amen! My collection of glassware is getting a little outrageous as well. I’m glad the trend is moving away from everything in the V-shaped glass as well. Just a bugaboo of mine, but it drives me crazy when any concoction poured in a V- shaped cocktail glass is called a martini or a whatever-tini.

I think an important step forward that is needed for better glassware, is for manufacturers to start providing “more interesting” glassware then they currently do. Each of the stems you seem me use here cost around $7 to $10 apiece, although I’m sure if I was buying them “new” they would cost a whole lot more.

It isn’t necessary for glassware to be engraved in this fashion, just glassware that is or an more interestign design would be a move in the right direction.

But PLEASE let’s stop this 10oz+ size cocktail glasses that I keep seeing at Crate and Barrel and other such companies!!!

-Robert

Hey Robert,
I find glassware to be an interesting subject. While I was looking at it from a different episode, I recently made a post on the subject to my blog, A Dram of Brine. I was commenting on the way various glassware collects the aroma of a cocktail, not the way a drink looks, but I think both are related. Effectively, what both are going to is that we can produce the best cocktail possible, but how we present it allows the cocktail to be improved.
Cheers. - S

I agree!  The 10 oz. is ridiculous.  Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe traditionally stemmed cocktails are 3-4 oz in serving.  I also was of the understanding that anything called a martini contains no citrus i.e. Manhatten, Vesper, Rob Roy, Negroni etc.?

Vance,
Yes, “back in the day” cocktail glasses were a LOT smaller than they are now. Old barware catalogs from before prohibition showed cocktail glasses that averaged about 4.5 ounces in size. Which of course shouldn’t be too surprising. What IS surprising is that folks can get away with glases that bump into double digits in size. A “shot” of spirit is 1.5 ounces. This size is sort of based on the fact that this is the proper amount of spirit to use for a single drink. So if you use 1.5 ounces of gin, .5 ounces of dry vermouth, you have two ounces… stirred with ice will bump that up to maybe three ounces… which makes it fit perfectly in a 4 or 4.5 ounce glass. To make a drink which will fit properly in a 10 ounce glass you are either using way too much booze (it would be like drinking wine from a glass which could hold a whole bottle. What chances of seeing THAT in a fine dining restaurant?)… or you use so many “fillers” that you can no longer taste the spirit in/of the drink.

As for “anything called a martini"… it’s not the lack of citrus that defines a Martini… it is the use of gin and vermouth that defines it :->

Scribe,
Should have provided a link to your blog! (http://dramofbrine.blogspot.com/2008/06/through-crystal-darkly.html), we don’t mind that here, as long as you aren’t simply doing blatent spam-vertising.

I totally agree about the glass playing a critical role in wine, and even in spirits, and the way they taste or are perceived. I am less convinced that cocktails, or more specifically “highly chilled” beverages can be dramatically enhanced by glassware. I expect that there might be some broad designs which make good and bad cocktail glasses, but I think the “visual” factor is going to play more of a role here. People are just going to feel better about a cocktail served from a beautiful glass than they are an ordinary one.

-Robert

I think your prized glass looks like a Fostoria Melrose.  I believe that pattern was around in the 1920’s.  I don’t have my reference up online but I’ve been toying with the idea of commissioning vintage glassware reproductions, and I have started recently collecting some vintage ones.  That is a lovely pattern.  It seems to be a forgotten bit of decadence to get a cocktail in a beautifully made glass from eras gone by.  Glad to have a chance to enjoy many of your episodes.  Best wishes

I too share Ms. Patton-Bragg’s peeve regarding every new cocktail being called a ________ martini or with the suffix tini or ini.  What happened a few years in Vancouver, BC was even worse.  I ordered a Negroni (I had to explain what it was.. somewhat understandable) at a fairly nice restaurant.  When the bartender served it to me she said, “Here is your Martini”.  It completely put me in a bad mood.  It seemed that every drink of that style was a Martini in her mind.  Very irritating.

U-Place,
That’s pretty interesting. Last time I was in I think it was a Keg, I noticed that they had switched from bad-ingredientinis to to serving classic cocktails like, specifically, the negroni. When I was in Vancouver last winter I noticed in general that cocktail lists were tending towards traditional cocktails. Of course, it could also be that we tend to go nicer restaurants when we are on vacation than we would otherwise, but I did notice that.
Cheers. - Spers

Scribe,
I need to correct the location.  It was in Victoria were the unfortunate incident took place.  Funny you should mention the Keg.  It was at the downtown Vancouver Keg on a prior trip that I discovered the liquid joy that is the Negroni.  The bar there was definitely promoting quality classics.

Cin-cin, U-Place Mike

10 oz? ouch!

For parties we use Libby 3oz mini-martini glasses - that way people can try a number of different drinks without getting hammered.  They are also quite solid, so when chilled in the freezer they stay cold. And they don’t break easily.

I definitely encourage the collection of whatever old glass pleases you. Almost all my vintage stuff I’ve found in thrift stores at prices ranging from 50 cents to $3.

The hot tip here is to pick up that glass you like and carry it round with you looking at all the other shelves where they have glassware; it’s not at all uncommon for glass that comes in together to get separated. I’ve frequently found a neat one-off turns into a pair or even a set of 3 or more once I’ve made the rounds.

I was watching ‘Harvey’ the other night and saw that not only was his Martini in a smaller glass (like Robert shows here) but it seemed to be slightly darker than the glass was (possibly an ‘Original Martini’?).  Either way, I also hate the HUGE trend going on right now.  I much prefer smaller glasses.

I think that coupe shaped glass that Mr. Hess was saying he really liked is not unlike a older style “saucer” type champagne glass.  They went out of fashion because they aren’t a very good glass for serving champagne in (bubbles dissipate too quickly) but would be pretty glasses for some cocktails.